Episode 3

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Published on:

15th Jun 2023

Quitting the PWC Grad Program To Pursue My Dream

Alright, let's dive into this fun chat! Our main man here is Andy, a former PWC employee who decided to take a leap of faith into the world of videography. He talks about his journey from being a part of the corporate world to becoming a creative entrepreneur.

Andy shares how he didn't feel completely satisfied at PWC, despite the prestige and security. He felt like he was living someone else's dream, not his own. So, he decided to follow his passion for storytelling through videography. He admits it wasn't an easy decision, especially considering the financial implications and the fear of throwing away a great opportunity. But he was determined to do something he loved.

He also shares some valuable advice for anyone feeling unsure about their career path. He emphasizes the importance of making your own decisions, not just following what others say. If you're not happy, it's worth having a conversation with your team leader or someone you trust. But ultimately, the decision should be yours.

Andy's story is a testament to the power of following your passion and making your own path. He's still learning and growing in his new field, but he's happier and more fulfilled. And that's what really matters, right? So, if you're feeling stuck, remember Andy's story. It's never too late to chase your dreams! 🚀

Transcript
Jeffrey Duncan:

Thanks for jumping on, man.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Like I said, especially at this hour in the morning.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Ben shared your background and, I thought, 'Oh, this is

Jeffrey Duncan:

interesting.' Kind of everything, from pizza making to professional

Jeffrey Duncan:

services, and now video production.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

I do a bit of freelance video, and I work for Lululemon as well.

Andy Lee:

Just like a retail assistant with them, and then I do my video as I

Andy Lee:

just pursue that outside of my working hours, I'm also started a wine label.

Andy Lee:

So fingers in every poem.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Man, you're a man of many talents.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Good on you.

Jeffrey Duncan:

H ow does one go about starting

Andy Lee:

a wine label?

Andy Lee:

So one of my mates, he studies video culture, his family owns a venues

Andy Lee:

growning up around wine his whole life.

Andy Lee:

And he got some differing ideas to his dad and said, 'All right, I'm gonna

Andy Lee:

do what I reckon would be good here'.

Andy Lee:

Approached me in another mate and said, 'Hey lads, I've got an idea'.

Andy Lee:

He did paper about like wine, the consumerism of wine and how different

Andy Lee:

elements tie into it .So, he was thinking, 'I need to capitalize on

Andy Lee:

these elements, ' because he just feels like a lot of traditional

Andy Lee:

winemakers or labels don't do that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Man, that sounds like a whole another interview.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I've myself noticed how the kind of boutique beer breweries have taken

Jeffrey Duncan:

off, and lot of kind of fun youthful stuff happening in that space.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Is it something along those lines?

Jeffrey Duncan:

If I reflect on wine brands in comparison, they're quite almost targeting an older

Jeffrey Duncan:

demographic and a bit stale . Maybe that just speaks to the top of the difference

Jeffrey Duncan:

between wine drinkers and beer drinkers.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, somewhat like I definitely think there's an element of that.

Andy Lee:

It's mainly just targeting new varieties, in a sense.

Andy Lee:

I think overall tastes change a lot in regards to wine in the last couple years.

Andy Lee:

People are moving away from those full-bodied reds . So it's just

Andy Lee:

capitalizing on those trends and trying to find what the next thing.

Jeffrey Duncan:

New grape variety.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Start from first principles.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Good stuff.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That sounds like

Andy Lee:

a fun project.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, it's exciting.

Andy Lee:

Obviously, there was so much rain, this year, though, so

Andy Lee:

everything got delayed heaps.

Andy Lee:

But it's on its way now, which is cool.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Cool man.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And so, you're in marketing in a sense with your video

Andy Lee:

production stuff?

Andy Lee:

In a sense, yeah.

Andy Lee:

I make videos , so I'm just building up my client base at the moment.

Andy Lee:

But one of my mates, he owns a gym.

Andy Lee:

Do you know Fit Stop?

Andy Lee:

I don't.

Andy Lee:

Actually, no.

Andy Lee:

It's like F 45, but it's one of those friends gym side to it

Andy Lee:

for his Fit Stop specifically.

Andy Lee:

And then through him, I've been in contact with the national team, so

Andy Lee:

they're running an event on Sunday, which I'll do some content for.

Andy Lee:

And then, I also do a bit of video work for a social media management

Andy Lee:

company and they work specifically with a lot of fitness studios, et cetera.

Andy Lee:

Which is cool, guess a lot of the work I've done so far is in that fitness space,

Andy Lee:

which like, if remember earlier what I said about the Lakers is that kind of

Andy Lee:

aligns with where I want to be going.

Andy Lee:

I'm shooting random stuff.

Andy Lee:

I like to think of it.

Andy Lee:

I actually did get a new camera the other day ,cuz I always enjoyed doing

Andy Lee:

it, but all throughout school and just when I was a kid, but I never really

Andy Lee:

thought of pursuing it seriously.

Andy Lee:

And having ethnic parents, that was also not exactly an option.

Andy Lee:

But then, I got to a point where I just thought, 'Oh, I hate my job.

Andy Lee:

I don't want wake up in the morning.

Andy Lee:

I wanna do something I actually care about'.

Andy Lee:

So then I thought, whatever, I'm young enough now, I'll do it.

Andy Lee:

It doesn't work out.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

Man, what a cool

Jeffrey Duncan:

story.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It takes a lot of bravery.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's PwC, we'll talk about that later, but, that's the holy grail

Jeffrey Duncan:

of aspirational career path, particularly for a lot of students.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And so to decide, 'No, I'm gonna do my own thing.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Go out on my own.' And that's impressive!

Andy Lee:

Yeah, no, I did think when, when Ben asked me to if I

Andy Lee:

wanted to ask these questions.

Andy Lee:

I thought, 'You sure you want me, mate?'

Jeffrey Duncan:

Hopefully, one day we'll look back on this recording and, you'll

Jeffrey Duncan:

tell the story of buying a new camera and going around doing small gym videos — the

Jeffrey Duncan:

origin stories of getting to the LA Lakers video and setting yourself up nicely

Andy Lee:

for that.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

No, I figured it was a bit like do you know who Casey Neistat is?

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

I remember just him a few years ago, watched a video and him, and

Andy Lee:

he was just talking about when he moved to New York or something,

Andy Lee:

he was broke, washing dishes.

Andy Lee:

And he just maxed out his credit card buying one of the Mac with iMovie on it.

Andy Lee:

Started doing that and look where he is now.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yep, that's right.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And I think if you look at all the people that have got to somewhere

Jeffrey Duncan:

amazing, there's always that kind of struggle, origin story.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How did you come to make the decision to leave PwC?

Jeffrey Duncan:

As I said, that's not easy, and truth be told, most people don't.

Jeffrey Duncan:

There's this concept of the pinstripe prison, which is actually a book.

Jeffrey Duncan:

If you haven't read it, you should.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But most people get trapped in these careers that they don't necessarily love.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And they like the money.

Jeffrey Duncan:

They 're leveraged up, got a big mortgage, got the commitment,

Jeffrey Duncan:

and they're often miserable, but they just can't break the cycle.

Jeffrey Duncan:

They can't get out of it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So you've done that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How'd you get to a point where you made that decision?

Andy Lee:

I guess there are a couple elements in it for me.

Andy Lee:

So, for a big part of it was, I'd grown up my whole life having this

Andy Lee:

mindset and grade of, 'Oh, you go to uni, then once you finish uni

Andy Lee:

,you go out and you get a real job'.

Andy Lee:

A real job was always something that was like in an office

Andy Lee:

or working for someone else.

Andy Lee:

Just that really typical nine to five.

Andy Lee:

And anything outside of that just meant that, not that you were

Andy Lee:

drop kick, but, ' Oh that's not how you should be doing things'.

Andy Lee:

And I think that was like something I got from my parents and then something

Andy Lee:

from school as well, where it's like, 'Yeah, to be successful you need

Andy Lee:

to get really good grades and be a really high achiever academically'.

Andy Lee:

Which I just don't think is the case in the real world at all.

Andy Lee:

Like Richard Branson, for example.

Andy Lee:

He's actually on paper, probably a bit of an idiot, but look where he is now.

Andy Lee:

And so, yeah, I went on and I did that and I got my job at PwC, and

Andy Lee:

then I was there for two years and I just thought, 'This is awful'.

Andy Lee:

And all through that first year, I just thought, 'What the hell?

Andy Lee:

This is not what I expected at all.' And then two things happened.

Andy Lee:

So one of them, I met my girlfriend, she went to uni for a semester.

Andy Lee:

Hated it, dropped out.

Andy Lee:

and, she was just working like basically full-time at a dessert place.

Andy Lee:

And I remember when I first met her, that whole old mindset still kicked in.

Andy Lee:

I thought, 'Oh, what, she didn't go to uni or she doesn't work in an office.

Andy Lee:

And then, there was a bit of a light bulb moment.

Andy Lee:

I thought, 'Whoa, actually, hang on.

Andy Lee:

I went to uni, I work in an office, and I hate my job'.

Andy Lee:

She didn't do any of that, and she loves her job.

Andy Lee:

So who am I to judge someone else who has just taken a completely different path?

Andy Lee:

So that was like a really big wake up call for me.

Andy Lee:

And then another thing, one of my mates actually, he very sadly passed away

Andy Lee:

when he was doing the Larapinta trail.

Andy Lee:

And he was super young, really fit, and just yeah, had heat

Andy Lee:

stroke and then dropped dead.

Andy Lee:

So that was like a massive shock and really had me evaluating if

Andy Lee:

that could happen to me, is that something that I want to be do?

Andy Lee:

Am I doing something that I want to be doing?

Andy Lee:

Am I excited about every day?

Andy Lee:

And the answer to that was just 'No'.

Andy Lee:

So, from basically that moment on, it took me a couple months,

Andy Lee:

but I decided I wanted to leave.

Andy Lee:

And then from there, it was about just opening up what's

Andy Lee:

next, what am I gonna do?

Andy Lee:

And there we go.

Andy Lee:

I didn't just say, 'No, I'm out and totally quit'.

Andy Lee:

But I certainly just went and said, 'I'm gonna forget any other job,

Andy Lee:

anything that'll pay my bills for now.

Andy Lee:

And then once that's set, locked in stone or set in, I'm just gonna leave'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Hey, that's so impressive!

Jeffrey Duncan:

I feel like this is the perfect origin story of a really cool outcome, and

Jeffrey Duncan:

incredibly self-aware of you too, to reflect on your friends sadly passing

Jeffrey Duncan:

away and asking those tough questions.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Like I said, like we're starting to interview a bunch of grads like

Jeffrey Duncan:

this, and one of the questions we ask is, you had your time again

Jeffrey Duncan:

is there anything you'd change?

Jeffrey Duncan:

And often the answer is no, or they just haven't thought about it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Clearly, the stuff they're not enjoying . It's almost like they're not admitting

Jeffrey Duncan:

it to themselves, whereas you just had the headspace to step back and really

Jeffrey Duncan:

think about that hard and make some tough

Andy Lee:

decisions.

Andy Lee:

There's probably a lot of people, and especially young grads, when you ask

Andy Lee:

them those sorts of questions, they want to come up as really impressive and

Andy Lee:

that they care heaps about their work.

Andy Lee:

So I feel like a lot of them are just gonna say, ' Oh no.

Andy Lee:

I'm totally happy with everything I've done that's led me to this point, and

Andy Lee:

I really want to be here, et cetera.

Andy Lee:

Which for some people, yeah, I think that's true.

Andy Lee:

But, obviously myself, I've left PwC, I know Ben left Deloitte and

Andy Lee:

I think he just realized quicker that he didn't enjoy it at all.

Andy Lee:

I even remember like if I look back at my time at PwC and I wish there

Andy Lee:

was a million things I said that I didn't or did do that I didn't do.

Andy Lee:

Like one of the first, one of my first weeks there, cuz PWCs grad

Andy Lee:

program started earlier, it started in December as opposed to March.

Andy Lee:

And so I just really offhand mentioned to someone, 'Oh yeah, one

Andy Lee:

of my mates is starting at Deloitte.

Andy Lee:

He gets one more summer off'.

Andy Lee:

That would've been cool, cause I basically finished uni, obviously

Andy Lee:

COVID, my exams got delayed a bit.

Andy Lee:

Finished uni like November the 30th or something.

Andy Lee:

And then I started at PwC December 7th, so I barely had a break.

Andy Lee:

And so I mentioned that to someone who then went and actually told

Andy Lee:

my resource manager I'd said that.

Andy Lee:

And I said that as a really offhand comment.

Andy Lee:

And at the end of it.

Andy Lee:

I was like, 'Ah, whatever, I start getting paid earlier, so that's fine.

Andy Lee:

And then, at a Friday drinks or something she started having one of those jokes with

Andy Lee:

me, ' like, Oh, I heard you said this.

Andy Lee:

I bet, you wish you had another summer off'.

Andy Lee:

She said it with a joking time, but I could tell she meant it.

Andy Lee:

And it was like a really disparaging comment to make.

Andy Lee:

Which like I should say as well, wasn't a reflection on everyone at

Andy Lee:

PwC, but I look back on that and I think, 'Oh, I should've just stood

Andy Lee:

after myself and said, you know what?

Andy Lee:

Yes.

Andy Lee:

I actually really would have liked another summer off because I'm 20 years old.

Andy Lee:

I've just started full-time work.

Andy Lee:

Like lot of people don't start until they're like 26.

Andy Lee:

So, yeah, I really would've liked some extra time off'.

Andy Lee:

But at the time, like I was saying, I didn't have that extra perspective and

Andy Lee:

I didn't have that sort of mindset.

Andy Lee:

It was just, 'No, I need to try and impress everyone I can as quick as I can.'

Jeffrey Duncan:

No like I said before, incredibly self-aware.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How did you navigate the resignation with PwC?

Jeffrey Duncan:

How did that conversation come up

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Andy Lee: It was a bit of, so one of my

Jeffrey Duncan:

the time, a bit after my mate died.

Jeffrey Duncan:

We just had his funeral and all that, and then we were on this job.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It was just getting busy.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And just my head wasn't in at.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And the manager on the job noticed, so she called me and

Jeffrey Duncan:

just said, 'Hey what's going on?

Jeffrey Duncan:

I've seen a lot of progression from you in the last, from the first time

Jeffrey Duncan:

we worked together to now, suddenly it just seems like things aren't right.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So what's the explanation?' And I just straight up said, 'Yeah, look, I don't

Jeffrey Duncan:

know if I want to be here anymore.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I didn't know I really whether to want to delve those details of what had

Jeffrey Duncan:

happened, and it was just a bit fresh.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So then from there, I just had a conversation with

Jeffrey Duncan:

my team leader in a sense.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then I just, yeah, I said to him, 'Look, here's what's happened mentally.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I just don't know if I want to be here.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I feel like it's not something I'm passionate about.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I don't really care about my work'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And basically said all of this, like a good month and a half before I

Jeffrey Duncan:

actually resigned, which in hindsight I probably wouldn't have done.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But at the time, I just did not care.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And I feel like I should have said that then resigned.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But I waited a bit.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But yeah, that, so that was the initial conversation.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then I guess, like, I've just said that I shouldn't have done that,

Jeffrey Duncan:

but it then also was on his radar, so he knew,' Andy's not enjoying this.

Jeffrey Duncan:

He is looking at moving somewhere else', and I guess it meant for them, they

Jeffrey Duncan:

were a bit more aware about where my headspace was and what I was thinking.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then, so when the call, when I did give him the call and said, ' Hey Joe,

Jeffrey Duncan:

I'm just letting you know I'm about to hand in my formal resignation and gonna

Jeffrey Duncan:

give my months notice or whatever it is'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So yeah, that was it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I will say my team leader was very supportive in that decision.

Jeffrey Duncan:

The first time I fully opened up to him and said,' I'm not enjoying it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I don't wanna do this', it wasn't a matter of, 'Oh, we've invested all this time and

Jeffrey Duncan:

money into you' .It was just straight up, and I didn't expect this from him at all.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Not that he wasn't a very lovely man, it was just, I'd always thought of

Jeffrey Duncan:

him as a straight PwC shooter, about his instant response If you're not

Jeffrey Duncan:

enjoying it, is there anything that I can do to help that within this firm?

Jeffrey Duncan:

And if it's not within this firm, what do you want to do?

Jeffrey Duncan:

And you should probably look at pursuing that instead.'

Jeffrey Duncan:

So yeah, was very open and receptive to that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then that gave me a bit more confidence, and a bit later I

Jeffrey Duncan:

just said to him, 'Hey I'm out'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Why do you, would the benefit of hindsight, think you shouldn't

Jeffrey Duncan:

have disclosed as early as you did?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Did you, did people react to that or people treated you differently?

Andy Lee:

No, I don't think they treated me differently, or at least

Andy Lee:

not on the outside, but I think, the cone of silence at any firm

Andy Lee:

is never that gonna be just that.

Andy Lee:

So then, word gets out, and then people ask you, 'Oh, hey

Andy Lee:

what are you thinking of doing?

Andy Lee:

'. Because I think, in the manager chat,

Andy Lee:

this person's thinking of leaving.'

Andy Lee:

But although I do think as well, it was like, another thing I

Andy Lee:

would've done differently, I didn't exactly hide how unhappy I was.

Andy Lee:

Like if a client would do something that would piss me off, I'd just

Andy Lee:

be in the office going, 'Ohhhh...'.

Andy Lee:

Things like that.

Andy Lee:

Whereas a lot of other people were very like stoic and calm, whereas that, to

Andy Lee:

me, I'd just gotten over the hill and went, 'No, I cannot deal with this.

Andy Lee:

Just, it's not that hard.

Andy Lee:

Why does it have to be this difficult?'

Andy Lee:

I don't know.

Andy Lee:

I've never been on the client side of it.

Andy Lee:

So, to be honest , that's probably poor judgment from me to just straight

Andy Lee:

up say that, but I didn't think, it seemed too hard when I had asked

Andy Lee:

for something and they would give me everything related to a transaction

Andy Lee:

except the one thing I asked for.

Andy Lee:

How did you get this?

Andy Lee:

But not just the invoice itself.

Andy Lee:

yeah.

Andy Lee:

But yeah I guess to me it was just if I was going to disclose that information, I

Andy Lee:

should have done it sooner to when I left.

Jeffrey Duncan:

The counter argument would be that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You did the right thing.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You gave your employer time to discuss and rectify.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So, that openness and honesty is usually appreciated from the employer, at least

Andy Lee:

should be.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

And I think it was by like my team leader, but even in that regard , like

Andy Lee:

a lot of people when they leave PwC, a partner will try and jump in and have all

Andy Lee:

these last minute meetings with them and they'll try and convince you to stay.

Andy Lee:

That wasn't the case with me, which you can either take as a me being

Andy Lee:

really bad at my job, which I hope wasn't the case, or B) I think they

Andy Lee:

knew that because I wasn't like moving to a rival firm or wasn't

Andy Lee:

moving in anywhere else in accounting.

Andy Lee:

I think they just knew, 'Oh, there's no point in us trying to convince

Andy Lee:

him to stay in accounting cuz he clearly doesn't wanna be there'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, totally.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And do you remember the first moment when you started to think

Jeffrey Duncan:

to yourself that perhaps of this career path that PwC isn't right for

Andy Lee:

you?

Andy Lee:

I thought that within two weeks.

Andy Lee:

It was after that conversation I had with my RM and she was ringing

Andy Lee:

me about wanting an extra three months off or my last summer off.

Andy Lee:

That was just instantly I thought, is this where I want to be?

Andy Lee:

But at the time I was 20, I was about to turn 21, and to me, like you were

Andy Lee:

saying earlier, it was that holy grail.

Andy Lee:

I was in this great job cuz I'd done my summer vacation program there the year

Andy Lee:

before and I actually quite enjoyed it.

Andy Lee:

And then, that's a bit of a shock.

Andy Lee:

I don't really know why that's a bad thing to say or actually at the time I thought,

Andy Lee:

'Oh no, I've committed a cardinal sin'.

Andy Lee:

I shouldn't have said anything like that.

Andy Lee:

But now I look back on it and if I were in that position, if I was still

Andy Lee:

at PwC and I grad said that to me, I would've gone, ' Hey, fair enough'.

Andy Lee:

I don't know why our program starts so early.

Andy Lee:

So yeah, within that first kind of week - two weeks was when I thought,

Andy Lee:

'Is this for me?', I was so young and I was in this position that's really

Andy Lee:

hard to attain for a lot of people.

Andy Lee:

So I just thought,' Ohh it must be a me problem'.

Andy Lee:

I'm gonna stick it out.

Andy Lee:

Then as I like went along, the timeline got shorter and shorter went from,

Andy Lee:

'Oh, I'm just gonna stay here until I can get like a manager bonus'.

Andy Lee:

Or, 'I'm gonna be here for a couple years until I can move to investment banking'.

Andy Lee:

' I'm just gonna a senior promotion then'.

Andy Lee:

That'll be on my resume forever.' I'll be, I was a senior'.

Andy Lee:

' Oh, I'm gonna be here until the end of the year'.

Andy Lee:

'Oh no, I'm out now'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

No, well done.

Jeffrey Duncan:

What you're describing there is the archetypal pinstripe prison pathway

Jeffrey Duncan:

where you get good grades at school, you go to uni, almost out of a sense

Jeffrey Duncan:

of obligation, study the right things.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Not because you have a passion for it, but because it's the expected path, or

Jeffrey Duncan:

it's using up your eight your entry score.

Andy Lee:

I didn't even study accounting.

Andy Lee:

I studied finance at uni.

Andy Lee:

I always thought I was gonna be this big investment banker.

Andy Lee:

And then one season of one year of one busy season at PwC working late every

Andy Lee:

night, getting in early every morning.

Andy Lee:

And I immediately realized, 'No, I'd actually hate being an investment banker'.

Andy Lee:

I don't care how much money they can pay me or I could make here because if this

Andy Lee:

is my lifestyle, that's not worth it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, no.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's again, you realizing your stuff well before most people do.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And, I guess the other thing, I'm interested, when you finally made

Jeffrey Duncan:

the decision to move on from PwC.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How did friends and family react?

Andy Lee:

My friends were thrilled.

Andy Lee:

They'd been telling me for months beforehand, 'You need to

Andy Lee:

get out, you need to get out'.

Andy Lee:

I have a mate, he is a very good videographer.

Andy Lee:

And he was super encouraging.

Andy Lee:

All their parents as well were very like, ' Yeah, just get out, Andy.' On

Andy Lee:

the flip side of that, my parents were pretty unhappy with that decision.

Andy Lee:

Which I think, for them being immigrants coming to a different country and

Andy Lee:

then having to work their way from nothing, it was like, 'Oh, he's just

Andy Lee:

giving up this really good job'.

Andy Lee:

And I certainly grappled with that a lot.

Andy Lee:

I think the reason it took me so long was because I felt like, am I throwing

Andy Lee:

away everything my parents worked for?

Andy Lee:

And then as well the cleaner at our office.

Andy Lee:

He was like an immigrant from the Serbian war back in the nineties or something.

Andy Lee:

And he was always just so happy to be there every day.

Andy Lee:

And so I always thought to myself, 'Look how happy he is.

Andy Lee:

And I'm in this job that a lot of people would consider to be

Andy Lee:

much better, and I am so unhappy.

Andy Lee:

Am I just being like an ungrateful And then like the same thing I

Andy Lee:

said with, 'Am I just throwing away my parents opportunities here?'.

Andy Lee:

But then, the other side of that, I also had that realization of...

Andy Lee:

there's a reason my parents came to this country to try

Andy Lee:

and get better opportunities.

Andy Lee:

And it's almost a waste in itself for me to just stay and do

Andy Lee:

something that I absolutely hate.

Andy Lee:

Because if I was born in China, that's what I would probably would've been doing.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, totally.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I guess the more important question is that do you feel like you're happier now?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Made the difficult call?

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Andy Lee:

I think, a big part of that is I actually love my job now

Andy Lee:

,which I never thought I'd say.

Andy Lee:

I think financially it's tougher which is just always gonna be the

Andy Lee:

case if you're not on a salary.

Andy Lee:

And there are a lot of moments of self-doubt when I'm recording videos and

Andy Lee:

editing the footage to back together.

Andy Lee:

And I think, 'Oh geez, it doesn't look how I pictured it in my head, or It

Andy Lee:

doesn't look how I storyboarded it out.'

Andy Lee:

This is getting really tough and I've not been doing this for long

Andy Lee:

enough to know the ins and outs and how to make everything the

Andy Lee:

way I exactly want it to be.

Andy Lee:

So, there's certainly that self-doubt and questioning my decision.

Andy Lee:

And I wake up every day and I think,' Did I make the right call?' But

Andy Lee:

fundamentally, I love my job at Lululemon.

Andy Lee:

I love the people I work with, the community that it has.

Andy Lee:

And even there, we've got a woman, she was a lawyer in America for a couple

Andy Lee:

years ,and she was making very good money, thought she realized how much

Andy Lee:

she hated it, and moved to Adelaide.

Andy Lee:

So, that's just such a good environment to be in.

Andy Lee:

And that just contributes overall to my happiness.

Andy Lee:

I've got much more flexibility in my life in the sense of I can, it's

Andy Lee:

easier for me to swap shifts around if I need a day off here and there.

Andy Lee:

Like for example, this Saturday I was meant to be shooting for someone.

Andy Lee:

I had a shift scheduled.

Andy Lee:

If I was at PwC, I'd have to be taking leave or something.

Andy Lee:

But here it was just messaging people who weren't working and they said, 'Yeah,

Andy Lee:

I can cover this part of the shift.

Andy Lee:

I can come with this part of the shift', and then boom, I'm

Andy Lee:

freed up again for Saturday.

Andy Lee:

So it's just the greater flexibility, and the more positive environment

Andy Lee:

or one that aligns more with me.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It sounds like you're really enjoying

Jeffrey Duncan:

the video production stuff as

Andy Lee:

well.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

Yeah.

Andy Lee:

I've loved doing it my whole life.

Andy Lee:

I'd never done it on a professional scale or a properly professional scale.

Andy Lee:

So to be in that zone now and really trying to pursue it.

Andy Lee:

It's very exciting.

Andy Lee:

It's scary.

Andy Lee:

It's super scary.

Andy Lee:

But I think if I'd stay at PwC and then incur all these financial

Andy Lee:

commitments while I was at that job, that would've been really scary as well.

Andy Lee:

Cause I would've thought, 'Oh, I can't leave now.

Andy Lee:

I have a mortgage, or I can't leave now.

Andy Lee:

I've got kids'.

Andy Lee:

I think one of my mates said, there's a very good, it's ' Yeah, leaving your

Andy Lee:

job's a huge risk, but so is staying in your job for 10 years, doing something

Andy Lee:

you don't like because it just means you're gonna take that risk a lot later.

Andy Lee:

So it's not a matter, it's just a matter of when not if you take the risk'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Absolutely.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And there's untold benefits to you just being generally happier and less stressed?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Day to day.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's hard to quantify that, but those years of just of being an

Jeffrey Duncan:

environment that's not good for you.

Jeffrey Duncan:

They take their toll, the effects accumulate pretty quickly.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's hard to realize that when you are young, but 10 years of that,

Jeffrey Duncan:

and you look at yourself in the mirror one day and you're like,

Jeffrey Duncan:

'Gosh, what's, what have I become?

Jeffrey Duncan:

This is not what I had planned'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Brilliant.

Jeffrey Duncan:

We'll come back to the video stuff a bit later.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I guess for the benefit of a lot of students who don't know a

Jeffrey Duncan:

whole lot about PwC- two parts.

Jeffrey Duncan:

What do they actually do, and then, what did your role involve

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Andy Lee: Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

However you see, they're obviously a professional services firm.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I think they're overarching, considered an accounting firm.

Jeffrey Duncan:

In Adelaide, there were a couple arms and then they opened

Jeffrey Duncan:

this big skilled service hubs.

Jeffrey Duncan:

There're now actually two offices in Adelaide.

Jeffrey Duncan:

There's one, which is was the one I was in.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So they have audit, tax and advisory, and then a consulting arm.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then the big one in Rundle Mall, I don't actually know, I know they've

Jeffrey Duncan:

got heaps of different business units, but they essentially support all the

Jeffrey Duncan:

other business units around Australia.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But they just, yeah, they provide professional services.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I don't actually really know what they did in tax, in consulting.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It looks like they just made PowerPoints all day.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Which I think is a stereotype or stuff.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It is a stereotype cuz that's what everyone asks , 'Oh, do

Jeffrey Duncan:

you know any consultants?'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But then, every day in the office, that is what they would be doing all day.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I was in, not at PwC, but spreadsheets and PowerPoint.

Andy Lee:

So yeah, I was in auditing, basically.

Andy Lee:

So, I was auditing financial statements, and there's a lot of

Andy Lee:

different branches of auditing.

Andy Lee:

You can have internal auditing, which doing a lot of controls,

Andy Lee:

testing and implementing plans for companies to be able to externally

Andy Lee:

audit their financial statements.

Andy Lee:

There's transformation auditing, which I don't actually know anything about.

Andy Lee:

I just know we had people that did it.

Andy Lee:

But the big one for PwC is external audit, which is what I was in.

Andy Lee:

So as I'm saying, that's auditing people's financial statements.

Andy Lee:

If we go back to the conversation earlier, if I'm doing like testing of

Andy Lee:

a revenue, for example I might just pick 10 random transactions, or was

Andy Lee:

always way more, but let's just say 10.

Andy Lee:

And I'd say, 'Hey, for this transaction, I need to see the invoice.

Andy Lee:

I need to see the bank showing money coming in.

Andy Lee:

I need to see like a contract, which often was the invoice.

Andy Lee:

And I need to see, your the shipping documents to show delivery of the item or

Andy Lee:

the service get that provides revenue'.

Andy Lee:

And so we would then document all of those, note any differences, and if

Andy Lee:

there was differences between what we'd asked for and what they'd provided, we'd

Andy Lee:

project those out on the population.

Andy Lee:

And there was something called performance materiality, which is basically, you

Andy Lee:

can't get every number the exact same.

Andy Lee:

If there's a company that's doing 120 million in revenue, of course I don't

Andy Lee:

have the time, no one has the time to go through every single transaction and

Andy Lee:

make sure that 120 million is correct.

Andy Lee:

So we just choose X amount or I dunno, 65 of them.

Andy Lee:

And we'd calculate what we thought that number should be based on

Andy Lee:

the information they provided us.

Andy Lee:

And if it was like $82,000, we'd project that difference

Andy Lee:

over the rest of the population.

Andy Lee:

And then that goes back into the performance materiality.

Andy Lee:

And that was a threshold of acceptable numbers.

Andy Lee:

So, for big companies, it ends up so it, it can be like $1.4 million,

Andy Lee:

which you might think, 'Oh my God.

Andy Lee:

That's a huge difference.

Andy Lee:

How could you let that happen?'

Andy Lee:

But it's remembering things like dealing in foreign exchange rates.

Andy Lee:

Often they have pretty different, like if they did heaps of foreign

Andy Lee:

exchange transactions, they might have a really different exchange rate

Andy Lee:

to us, or different in the sense of it's out by 0.002, which ultimately

Andy Lee:

does have a pretty big effect.

Andy Lee:

And so it's just providing assurance or like reasonable assurance that,

Andy Lee:

'Yep, these numbers are presented pretty fairly.' You can't say that

Andy Lee:

they're a hundred percent accurate, but you can say they're within that

Andy Lee:

ballpark figure, so yeah, sure.

Andy Lee:

They're good to go.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And this assurance process, is this something that companies have to do

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Andy Lee: If you're

Jeffrey Duncan:

I think if you're independent, I don't think you have to.

Jeffrey Duncan:

But I know a lot of people do because, if you don't have external auditors coming

Jeffrey Duncan:

in, some people can just cook the books.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Which I always thought, ' Oh, it'd be so easy just to put through

Jeffrey Duncan:

fraudulent pay cycles to yourself'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Especially in a big corporation.

Jeffrey Duncan:

The only risk that comes with that is if one of the transactions the auditor

Jeffrey Duncan:

happens to pick, is one of the fraudulent ones that you put in then it's,' Whoa...'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You start getting questions and auditors will flag it, or

Jeffrey Duncan:

good auditors will flag it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Some of them get, ' Oh no, we really need this client, so we're just

Jeffrey Duncan:

gonna sign off on their financials'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah,

Jeffrey Duncan:

Did you ever have any exciting moments like that where you

Jeffrey Duncan:

come across something that's a bit spicy?

Andy Lee:

I wish, I know my first client, I think two or three years before, there'd

Andy Lee:

been some stuff going on with one of their payroll officers and she, I think

Andy Lee:

actually went, ended up going to prison, and just no one was able to pick up on it.

Andy Lee:

But never saw anything personally that exciting.

Andy Lee:

There were definitely times where I was like, 'Oh, that smells like fraud to me'.

Andy Lee:

Without, it was always more, I was joking around just saying that,

Andy Lee:

but there was like a semb of truth of, 'Ah, that doesn't actually make

Andy Lee:

sense, so why has that gone through?'.

Andy Lee:

But then you talk to the client and oftentimes they're able to just fully

Andy Lee:

explain it , when they explain it.

Andy Lee:

You just document that down as an exception.

Andy Lee:

And you say based on the evidence, we're not actually gonna project

Andy Lee:

that on the rest of the population.

Andy Lee:

Cause it doesn't make sense.

Andy Lee:

It's a very one-off occurrence.

Andy Lee:

They've given us all the documentation for it.

Andy Lee:

So that's fine.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Oh, okay.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You've given a really good overview of what the role in the company is about,

Jeffrey Duncan:

but I guess practically day to day, what does your day end up looking like?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Like what do you do when you arrive in the morning

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Andy Lee: Do you want the real answer?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Do you want the answer that everyone gives?

Jeffrey Duncan:

I want the real

Jeffrey Duncan:

answer.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So that students who are like, wondering what to do with their

Jeffrey Duncan:

career make a good choice.

Andy Lee:

Yes, fair enough.

Andy Lee:

So a lot of people like to say that auditors work really long

Andy Lee:

hours and they work really hard.

Andy Lee:

That is not a lie , but it's not a hundred percent the truth.

Andy Lee:

I feel like it's overblown in how much auditors work.

Andy Lee:

Yes, I felt like there were definitely times, like during end of year,

Andy Lee:

so for any during 31 clients, those periods did get very busy.

Andy Lee:

And I certainly remember there were a few weeks they did periods of a few weeks

Andy Lee:

long while I began into the opposite.

Andy Lee:

I'm Ieaving at 7- 6- 7, sometimes getting in earlier, sometimes getting

Andy Lee:

in like at nine, but then you'd be leaving at seven or eight o'clock.

Andy Lee:

So there were definitely long days involved.

Andy Lee:

But the benefits of PwC ... there was a lot of flexibility, so you could actually

Andy Lee:

just work from home if you wanted, which is another thing that I wish I took really

Andy Lee:

guilty about working from home, which I just don't think you should add at all.

Andy Lee:

So there was that flexibility.

Andy Lee:

I really did a lot of the team a lot like 90 - 95% of people

Andy Lee:

I got along very well with.

Andy Lee:

And so it was just, you can just chat with them, chill around the place, go

Andy Lee:

get lunch, et cetera, go get coffees.

Andy Lee:

It was a hot desk situation, so, that was really good.

Andy Lee:

It was an open floor plan.

Andy Lee:

You weren't relegated just sitting at one desk every single day.

Andy Lee:

Some people did just cause they liked the desk they were at, but if you wanted to

Andy Lee:

change things up, you definitely could.

Andy Lee:

. I thought that was fantastic.

Andy Lee:

And it meant that you could also just sit with all levels of people.

Andy Lee:

It wasn't like partners were locked away in their office and you could

Andy Lee:

never get a word in with them.

Andy Lee:

Or senior managers were here, or managers were there.

Andy Lee:

It was just everyone sat amongst everyone.

Andy Lee:

So that's like the office layout and yeah, other than that, outside of the

Andy Lee:

busy seasons, I did think it could be pretty typical, nine to five.

Andy Lee:

It was also like if you needed, you could always have a three hour block in the

Andy Lee:

middle of the day to do your own thing.

Andy Lee:

It was just about making up the hours elsewhere, which some

Andy Lee:

people took to extreme liberties.

Andy Lee:

So don't do that.

Andy Lee:

Don't start at four in the afternoon and finish at 3:00 AM cuz that doesn't

Andy Lee:

align with anyone's work schedule.

Andy Lee:

So that's pretty hard.

Andy Lee:

You could always just

Andy Lee:

say, 'Hey, I'm actually gonna need from 12 onwards to do something else'.

Andy Lee:

And if you didn't want it to be annual leave or unpaid leave or

Andy Lee:

whatever, you can just stay an extra hour all the other days.

Andy Lee:

So outside of busy season, I'd say it was very nine to five in the sense of if you

Andy Lee:

tick off all those hours during the week.

Andy Lee:

Yep.

Andy Lee:

All good.

Andy Lee:

During busy season, that's when it got pretty tough sometimes.

Andy Lee:

But I should very heavily stressed.

Andy Lee:

I think that part's overblown.

Andy Lee:

I don't think auditors love to complain about how many hours they work.

Andy Lee:

I don't think that's the reality a hundred percent of the time.

Jeffrey Duncan:

No, I got it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Okay.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So it sounds like you're assigned to one client at a time.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then, you described the audit process, like what does that look like in practice?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Are you chasing invoices all day

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Andy Lee: Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So within that client, you'd get assigned areas or parts

Jeffrey Duncan:

of the financial statements.

Jeffrey Duncan:

If you think of their financial statements, the income statement,

Jeffrey Duncan:

essentially you're just looking at the numbers on the income statement and

Jeffrey Duncan:

the numbers on the balance sheet, and making sure that they're all ticked off.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You wouldn't really do testing over cash.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You do testing over accounts receivable.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Or for example, if I got assigned testing of accounts receivable, what

Jeffrey Duncan:

I would do is I'd ask for a breakdown of all your accounts receivable, how

Jeffrey Duncan:

they're aged, and like outside of that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Then you'd go what's the provision of accounts receivable?

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then you'd perform your testing over there.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Do you wanna break down to how that works

Jeffrey Duncan:

? Jeffrey Duncan: I guess I, I'm more

Jeffrey Duncan:

who has this idea in their head that it's all glamor and high-flying finance,

Jeffrey Duncan:

but just like at any given moment in the day what are you actually doing?

Andy Lee:

So a lot of it was you would be inputting things into spreadsheets

Andy Lee:

to make sure they would work.

Andy Lee:

You'd be getting, reckon 80% ... I'm just gonna say 80.

Andy Lee:

I can't exactly remember, but I reckon 80% of transactions we tested,

Andy Lee:

are numbers we tested would always just end up relating back to the

Andy Lee:

invoice they either received or sent.

Andy Lee:

And it was a matter of looking at the information on that invoice,

Andy Lee:

inputting it on our spreadsheet, and then seeing does that number align with

Andy Lee:

what they've told us or, for example, what I'm saying with the provision

Andy Lee:

stuff you look at the aging of the receivables and you assign collectability

Andy Lee:

probability based on that age.

Andy Lee:

So I'd look at the invoice, I'd say, 'Oh, you sent this invoice, over 90 days ago.

Andy Lee:

I'm now gonna consider that as you've only got like a 75%

Andy Lee:

chance of getting that money back'.

Andy Lee:

So then you would multiply that 75% by the invoice amount.

Andy Lee:

And that would give you X figure, like 75 grand.

Andy Lee:

And then you go look at their provision for accounts receivable, like how much

Andy Lee:

have they provisioned for to lose.

Andy Lee:

And you'd see have they actually provision a 75% there or have

Andy Lee:

they done it differently?

Jeffrey Duncan:

You've got a bit of money coming in or out, let's say from the

Jeffrey Duncan:

bank account, and you need to confirm that actually came from where it said it

Jeffrey Duncan:

was coming from, or went to where said, as opposed to just being siphoned off

Jeffrey Duncan:

. Andy Lee: So it was just making

Jeffrey Duncan:

just checking that transactions were real and that they could provide

Jeffrey Duncan:

the paperwork for all of them.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then, obviously, those transactions affect specific accounts or

Jeffrey Duncan:

specific parts of the balance sheet.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So it was just choosing different transactions from every single line

Jeffrey Duncan:

item , except for the line items that were, very insignificant.

Jeffrey Duncan:

If it was this huge company and they had a hundred thousand dollars thing

Jeffrey Duncan:

in their balance sheet, more often than just probably not even looked at

Jeffrey Duncan:

Cool.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Now, I get it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So I can see that being interesting for a few weeks, but I'd imagine that would

Jeffrey Duncan:

become pretty repetitive, pretty quickly.

Andy Lee:

Yes and no.

Andy Lee:

I think the nature of moving onto different clients at all

Andy Lee:

times did mean that different clients had different problems.

Andy Lee:

So one of the things I did enjoy about my time PwC was...

Andy Lee:

when you'd come up with clients who had problems and didn't know how to

Andy Lee:

solve them, for example, one of my clients they had a lot of options

Andy Lee:

that were vesting and they'd used the black SHOs model incorrectly.

Andy Lee:

So they had to completely rework that model, and that's something

Andy Lee:

that I had to help 'em with.

Andy Lee:

And that was actually a really rewarding process cause I know

Andy Lee:

they were really grateful for that.

Andy Lee:

They asked us for our work papers after the audit to make sure they

Andy Lee:

could get it right the next year.

Andy Lee:

So I like that other 20% of not looking at invoices.

Andy Lee:

It's doing that problem solving, doing that, troubleshooting and

Andy Lee:

trying to work out together with them what the number should be.

Andy Lee:

Because sometimes they don't even know.

Andy Lee:

They just say, 'Look, we've just done that.

Andy Lee:

We actually don't know.

Andy Lee:

We need your help with this'.

Andy Lee:

And yeah, there are certain times where that gets a bit iffy and

Andy Lee:

it's, 'Oh, you actually need to engage another arm of our business.

Andy Lee:

Or ,for independence, you need to talk to EYs tax team or something, for example'.

Andy Lee:

But there were times like if it's something like I just said, like an

Andy Lee:

options model, ' Yes, I can help you with that and yes, I can help you

Andy Lee:

calculate what that figure should be'.

Andy Lee:

And then you'd have conversations with their CEO and the partner

Andy Lee:

and the senior manager and myself.

Andy Lee:

And we'd be sitting there and all of us are just doing calculations and saying,

Andy Lee:

'No, it should be this cause of this, or it should be that because of that'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That's cool.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That, that sounds more...

Jeffrey Duncan:

getting into the realm of consulting where you've got a problem for the

Jeffrey Duncan:

client and you're helping them solve it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So you said before that it wasn't what you expected as a student.

Jeffrey Duncan:

The reality differed from that?

Jeffrey Duncan:

What did you expect and how did the reality differ?

Andy Lee:

I guess, as a student when I went in, and I think a

Andy Lee:

lot of it actually was to do with the first team I worked with.

Andy Lee:

But as a student, I went in and I actually pretty much did the

Andy Lee:

same thing that I was doing.

Andy Lee:

I felt like the team I worked with when I was a student, when

Andy Lee:

I was a vacuum was really good.

Andy Lee:

Everyone was really supportive.

Andy Lee:

But on my first job, the one of the managers I thought would just had a

Andy Lee:

serious problem with me from the get-go.

Andy Lee:

And they just weren't like, supportive of any mistakes I made.

Andy Lee:

Just made me feel like every time I was asking for help, that

Andy Lee:

was just this huge nuisance.

Andy Lee:

So while the work itself was similar, I didn't retain much of that information

Andy Lee:

so I was just really fresh, didn't know it, and I didn't feel supported by

Andy Lee:

this one specific manager, which made things really uncomfortable for me.

Andy Lee:

And then that was also like, 'Oh, this is nothing like that

Andy Lee:

job I did over the summer'.

Andy Lee:

That was all roses.

Andy Lee:

That was all fun.

Andy Lee:

I was going out to the client every day here.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, the internship was really good.

Andy Lee:

I really like the team, whereas my first actual job at PwC.

Andy Lee:

I felt like one of the managers just had a serious problem with me.

Andy Lee:

And then that made the job really hard, even though the work I was

Andy Lee:

doing was fundamentally the same.

Andy Lee:

I didn't feel as supported and I didn't feel as encouraged.

Andy Lee:

And so as a result of that, it was just like I was going into the

Andy Lee:

office and it was a very big client.

Andy Lee:

But we're going into the office at 7:00 AM leaving at 6:30 - 7:00 PM.

Andy Lee:

As a my first three weeks on the job and just to sit there and feel like I was an

Andy Lee:

idiot cause I wasn't getting that support.

Andy Lee:

So it was just a bit of a wake-up call in the sense of not every

Andy Lee:

team at PwC is gonna be like the one I worked on as a vacationer.

Andy Lee:

And I know some people when they were vacationers really bad experiences

Andy Lee:

because they got put with a bad team.

Andy Lee:

I think a big part of it would depend on you worked with.

Andy Lee:

And as I said, I thought 95% of the people there were great and I really liked them.

Andy Lee:

But there were those couple people that I thought, 'Oh, you are just

Andy Lee:

being a dick for the sake of it'.

Andy Lee:

Sorry.

Jeffrey Duncan:

No, yeah, I can imagine that shapes your experience quite heavily.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And, I guess worth work, worth asking then.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So when you were a student, first of all, how did you come across PwC?

Jeffrey Duncan:

And then what was it that made you wanna work for them specifically?

Andy Lee:

I actually as a student, knew nothing about any of the big four.

Andy Lee:

I just did this thing.

Andy Lee:

So I think, a lot of people apply for graduate roles, etc..

Andy Lee:

I got quite lucky in the sense, that they just offered me one of my VA program.

Andy Lee:

The VA program I got through this thing called, I don't even

Andy Lee:

remember, CA Achievers program.

Andy Lee:

It's set up by the CA so it was always gonna be more based in accounting.

Andy Lee:

But you go and you do psychometric testing, like play those games

Andy Lee:

or do really quick mass puzzles, and then they invite you to

Andy Lee:

like a focus group or something.

Andy Lee:

Not a focus group, but you get an assessment center.

Andy Lee:

And then from there you sit down at a table with four or five other people,

Andy Lee:

and you get handed a problem and you have to find a way to solve it.

Andy Lee:

And everyone's, you you get someone from certain firms and they go and sit on

Andy Lee:

each table and just see how you're doing.

Andy Lee:

And they just, I guess they wanna see how you work in a team, how you

Andy Lee:

involve everyone else and how you also just solve the problem to begin with.

Andy Lee:

So, out of that, I got two internships, one to PwC, one

Andy Lee:

to a mid-tier firm called PKF.

Andy Lee:

And I did those back to back in the summer.

Andy Lee:

And yeah, PwC offered me a job and said yes, went and did my PKF interview.

Andy Lee:

Internship.

Andy Lee:

They knew that I'd already had my offer from PwC.

Andy Lee:

And then, but I said yes with the thought of, 'I'm still gonna apply to other

Andy Lee:

places, cuz you can always say no'.

Andy Lee:

And that's what one of my friends from PwC told me as well.

Andy Lee:

He went, cuz I said to him, 'Oh, they sent me a contract and all that, but if I

Andy Lee:

sign it and I just locked in for forever'.

Andy Lee:

And he was like, 'Not at all'.

Andy Lee:

There's people who get other jobs and pull out.

Andy Lee:

But then obviously COVID hit, I was interested in going overseas

Andy Lee:

or trying to go overseas or interstate for investment banking.

Andy Lee:

But then COVID came in and I just thought, 'Oh, I'd probably rather

Andy Lee:

just stay at home at the moment'.

Andy Lee:

There's not really a scope, there is a scope for it, but I feel like

Andy Lee:

there's not that much of a scope for investment making in Adelaide.

Andy Lee:

So, I'm gonna stay where I'm just gonna take my PwC offer and then

Andy Lee:

in three years I'll see where that feeds me down the road.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, that's how I ended up PwC

Andy Lee:

. Jeffrey Duncan: Any ad for the

Andy Lee:

this is still keen on PwC, you've obviously navigated the application

Andy Lee:

screening process and got those offers.

Andy Lee:

Any kind of advice there, like did reflecting back on it?

Andy Lee:

I mean I didn't do PwC's specific one.

Andy Lee:

I think the biggest advice is just be yourself.

Andy Lee:

Show that you're a good person to work with.

Andy Lee:

They don't really care whether you know your stuff or not.

Andy Lee:

You can be like, really smart really clever, know the ins and outs of

Andy Lee:

every single accounting standard.

Andy Lee:

But if you're just not that personable, really difficult to

Andy Lee:

work with more often than not .I say more often than not, because there

Andy Lee:

were people like that at the firm.

Andy Lee:

But more often than not, they're not gonna hire you.

Andy Lee:

It's about showing that you can be a team player and showing that.

Andy Lee:

I always fundamentally said, it's about showing that you're just a good person or

Andy Lee:

a good bloke, because ultimately they're looking for people that they're gonna

Andy Lee:

be sitting with potentially up to 12- 14 hours a day when it gets really busy.

Andy Lee:

So they want someone that they'll get along with, or they want

Andy Lee:

someone who's eager to learn.

Andy Lee:

They don't want, like some know-it-all, who thinks they know everything

Andy Lee:

about accounting to begin with.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, it's good advice.

Jeffrey Duncan:

We used to call it the airport testing consulting, where the person you're

Jeffrey Duncan:

interviewing, you're sitting across from the table and you ask yourself,

Jeffrey Duncan:

' If I'm on a flight to a client, the flight gets delayed for five hours.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Do I want to be stuck in the airport for five hours with this person?'

Jeffrey Duncan:

And the No there's your answer...

Jeffrey Duncan:

you shouldn't hire them.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Sage advice.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Going back to leaving PwC, you mentioned one of the difficult

Jeffrey Duncan:

bits has been, financially tougher.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Is there any other things that you've found difficult to making that call?

Andy Lee:

I think if I had been pressured a lot by the partners, then I might

Andy Lee:

have found it a bit more difficult.

Andy Lee:

But that obviously wasn't the case.

Andy Lee:

And the partners I did speak to, they were also, or at least one of

Andy Lee:

them, was very, 'Yeah, screw it.

Andy Lee:

Do what you wanna do'.

Andy Lee:

Like I say here, this is, and then he even talked about how, like

Andy Lee:

the ceiling at PwC, et cetera.

Andy Lee:

But a lot of the difficulty was, I think, internalized as well.

Andy Lee:

And it goes back to what I was saying about,' Am I throwing away this

Andy Lee:

opportunity that's been given to me?'

Andy Lee:

So that, those were the difficult parts.

Andy Lee:

But I think even in that sense I'm not gonna call myself a trailblazer.

Andy Lee:

I'm not the first person that left that at PwC.

Andy Lee:

But I know there's been, there's people who were in my grad group with

Andy Lee:

the grad group below me , one of the girls messaged me the other day or

Andy Lee:

the other month asking me for help.

Andy Lee:

Cuz she said, 'Hey look, I'm like really not happy here.

Andy Lee:

What was your mindset?' And I just said, 'Oh, I put these plan in place'.

Andy Lee:

And then, I got a message her from her last night and she said, 'Hey,

Andy Lee:

I'm, I've quit my last days on Friday.

Andy Lee:

Thanks so much for your help'.

Andy Lee:

And that to me was like this big moment of validation.

Andy Lee:

Cause it's like cool, other people are now seeing that I'm just off doing

Andy Lee:

something that I love and they're not resigning themselves to just

Andy Lee:

staying where they don't wanna be.

Andy Lee:

So yes, it was like, financially it's a bit more difficult and like emotionally

Andy Lee:

there's that turmoil of every day, 'Geez, did I make the right choice?'.

Andy Lee:

But to see other people saying, like asking me, 'Hey

Andy Lee:

Andy, how are things for you?

Andy Lee:

I'm thinking of leaving as well, and then seeing them leave something that

Andy Lee:

they're not happy doing is awesome'.

Jeffrey Duncan:

No, it's good stuff, man.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And I guess we've got an idea of what your average day looked like at PwC.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How about now ? What's just contrasting the two?

Jeffrey Duncan:

What's the day look like now?

Andy Lee:

My days now are, it's either I'm out learning how to use my camera,

Andy Lee:

learning how to use the editing software.

Andy Lee:

If I'm not working, I'm either, yeah, learning how to use the camera,

Andy Lee:

learning how to use my editing software.

Andy Lee:

I try and get out and surf as much as I can.

Andy Lee:

Cause I think that's just so good mentally for me.

Andy Lee:

I do have that downtime as well.

Andy Lee:

I'm not one of those people that always trying to work on the next thing.

Andy Lee:

I think it's valuable to chill out a bit.

Andy Lee:

But yeah, other than that, if I've got work at Lululemon, I'll go work

Andy Lee:

there, do my hours and that, that's the big thing I like about it.

Andy Lee:

, at Lulu, I do my hours, I leave and I don't think about it.

Andy Lee:

Whereas at PwC, I would be even on those nine to five days or

Andy Lee:

whatever at night, I'd be thinking, 'Oh, what do I need for tomorrow?

Andy Lee:

Or, I need to make lunch for tomorrow.

Andy Lee:

I need to start thinking about this meeting tomorrow with this client'.

Andy Lee:

What would I be saying?

Andy Lee:

And so I never fully switched off.

Andy Lee:

Whereas at Lulu, yep, I switch off and then I'm into the next thing.

Andy Lee:

It's either I'm chilling or I'm working on my video, or I'm working on my wine label.

Andy Lee:

It's just my days now don't have that set structure, which to some people is

Andy Lee:

really valuable and they really like that.

Andy Lee:

And I think to an extent it's good for me as well or was good for me, but

Andy Lee:

now I really value the flexibility of kind of being able to pick and choose

Andy Lee:

what my day looks like on the day.

Jeffrey Duncan:

No, that's there's absolutely value in that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And like I said, it's not for everybody.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Some people really need someone looking over their shoulder, holding them

Jeffrey Duncan:

to account, being told what to do.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And where to from here, you've touched on the long term dream of working

Jeffrey Duncan:

in the US doing your video, but like kind of the next year or two, do you

Jeffrey Duncan:

have a bit of a an idea of where you want to be heading in the medium term?

Andy Lee:

I don't know.

Andy Lee:

I'd try and take things, day by day or week by week.

Andy Lee:

One of my friends he told me a pretty good story or a good bit of information, but

Andy Lee:

he worked at the Adelaide International in early January, and he said, and he

Andy Lee:

got to interview people like Novakovic.

Andy Lee:

If you asked him last year in October, ' Where do you think you'll be in three

Andy Lee:

months?' His answer definitely wouldn't have been talking to Novakovic.

Andy Lee:

So for him it became a bit of, cause I think a lot of people get fixated

Andy Lee:

on ARM 2024, and I haven't done this.

Andy Lee:

I'm 28 and I haven't done this yet.

Andy Lee:

I'm 30 and I don't have this in my life yet.

Andy Lee:

And I think he was one of those people that also had that idea, but after

Andy Lee:

that it was like you could be 45 and suddenly things can change for you.

Andy Lee:

It's like the age.

Andy Lee:

It doesn't matter.

Andy Lee:

It's just about your mindset and taking it day by day and going day

Andy Lee:

by day , and making those steps.

Andy Lee:

Because one month he was just doing random marketing for a small accounting firm.

Andy Lee:

Two months later, he's talking to the best tennis player in the world,

Andy Lee:

arguably one of the best he's ever lived.

Andy Lee:

So like that was just a huge, or I can do this moment for him.

Andy Lee:

Just you can't set those expectations so early on.

Andy Lee:

Like for some people it works, but for him, I think he's realized

Andy Lee:

it's all about just the process and just trusting in it, and things

Andy Lee:

will work out where they should.

Andy Lee:

And , that's where I'm taking that mindset.

Andy Lee:

I guess, short term, the main goals are just keep improving on my

Andy Lee:

videography, keep improving on my editing skills, and get this wine

Andy Lee:

label launched in the next year.

Andy Lee:

But outside of that, I don't have aspirations of where I want

Andy Lee:

to be, where I wanna be moving.

Andy Lee:

Do I wanna stay in Adelaide, do I wanna leave Adelaide?

Andy Lee:

Those aren't things I'm trying to think of right now.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, totally.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And certainly no rush.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I think I read somewhere that the in entrepreneurship and what you're doing

Jeffrey Duncan:

is a form of entrepreneurship, but the average age of a successful, like a

Jeffrey Duncan:

unicorn founder, like mid - forties.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's rarely, people have this misconception.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That all the successful entrepreneurs are dropped outta

Jeffrey Duncan:

uni and hit success immediately, but it's very rarely the case.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Would you want to be moving into video production full-time?

Andy Lee:

Yeah I'd love to.

Andy Lee:

Like that would be the dream.

Andy Lee:

Yeah, we'll do it for the Lakers, but if not the Lakers, just to have,

Andy Lee:

my own production company and just be telling stories all the time.

Andy Lee:

I guess, that part of it is just start a really successful YouTube channel.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Love it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

You're obviously you're already picking up a few clients.

Jeffrey Duncan:

How did you go about that?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Because that's often the biggest hurdle is that first client, once you've

Jeffrey Duncan:

made the leap, the first revenue.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That's a bigger milestone than almost any other.

Andy Lee:

Do think it's interesting just firstly that you're saying

Andy Lee:

it's the biggest milestone, cuz for me, yeah, it definitely was.

Andy Lee:

And the very first time I sent someone an invoice and got paid

Andy Lee:

for it, it was this huge, 'Oh my God, like I've actually done that.

Andy Lee:

Someone's paid me for work that I've done'.

Andy Lee:

And that was this, like a bit a moment of validation, but it was

Andy Lee:

also scary cuz it meant it was real.

Andy Lee:

And now this is something that like, 'Oh, that's gonna be something that

Andy Lee:

I've actually put in my tax return.

Andy Lee:

And I made this amount of money this year based on work that

Andy Lee:

I've done as a sole trader.'

Andy Lee:

And so now it's real like there's no turning back now.

Andy Lee:

But it was an awesome feeling.

Andy Lee:

It was just leveraging anyone I knew who had any sort of business or would

Andy Lee:

need any sort of video service, and even just straight up messaging and

Andy Lee:

saying, 'Hey, I'm transitioning into the video space, just wondering do

Andy Lee:

you need any sort of video work done?

Andy Lee:

' And there was a couple nos here and there was one.

Andy Lee:

So my mate who owns the gym, he said, 'Hey bro, like that sounds awesome.

Andy Lee:

That's, unfortunately, that's just not in my budget right now, but I'll definitely

Andy Lee:

let you know when that works out'.

Andy Lee:

And at that point I went, no, like I'll do it for free.

Andy Lee:

I'll do you a reel for free and I'm gonna back myself in and if you

Andy Lee:

like what I do, then we can see if there's a good partnership there.

Andy Lee:

And so I did a free piece of work for him , and it was just taking a pun on myself cuz

Andy Lee:

it's not like it took me 20 minutes to do.

Andy Lee:

I went and filmed at his gym for three hours, and then spent a couple hours at

Andy Lee:

home editing it all together, grad color, grading it, making it look nice, finding

Andy Lee:

the music that I wanted, et cetera.

Andy Lee:

And if I value my time at x amount per hour, it was like a $500

Andy Lee:

job that I've done for nothing.

Andy Lee:

Just because I wanted to get my foot in the door and say, this is what I can do.

Andy Lee:

Let me prove to you that I'm capable and we can work from here.

Andy Lee:

And he saw it, he loved it and went, 'Oh, mate.

Andy Lee:

That's incredible.

Andy Lee:

Yes, we'll definitely get you in.' And then he's managed to find money

Andy Lee:

in the budgets to start paying me now.

Andy Lee:

And then from that, it just got me a bit more exposure.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That's a cool story, man.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Well done!

Jeffrey Duncan:

Putting yourself out there, using your network, getting your foot

Jeffrey Duncan:

in the door with a free job.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That's fantastic work .And you're finding it easy to pick up new

Jeffrey Duncan:

clients now are still in the trenches?

Andy Lee:

Yes and no.

Andy Lee:

There's certainly.

Andy Lee:

Client jobs I've been doing that I look at them and I think, 'Oh gee,

Andy Lee:

that's just not how I wanted to go.

Andy Lee:

Or that, like the interesting thing is in my head', I've always got this picture

Andy Lee:

of what it's gonna look like, and then when it comes to actually filming it

Andy Lee:

sometimes it just doesn't look the same.

Andy Lee:

Or sometimes I look back at the footage and I think, 'Oh, I

Andy Lee:

should have asked them to do this.

Andy Lee:

I should have gotten to do this instead'.

Andy Lee:

But that is also part of the fun of you have to adapt and create something new

Andy Lee:

out of something you weren't expecting.

Andy Lee:

But there's certainly been moments of this is a lot harder than I thought

Andy Lee:

it would or should be right now.

Andy Lee:

And then, yeah, I guess, based on that building, the client base is sometimes

Andy Lee:

taking on jobs you don't necessarily want to do, and finding that balance between.

Andy Lee:

This job isn't gonna pay as much as I would like, but do I need it

Andy Lee:

for my portfolio or is it something I want to have on my portfolio?

Andy Lee:

And just striking that balance.

Andy Lee:

If I wasn't working at Lululemon or didn't have any other sort of source of income,

Andy Lee:

I'd be saying yes to every single job I could get no matter what the content.

Andy Lee:

But, cause I guess financially I still had that, it does afford me that

Andy Lee:

flexibility to say, 'No, I can't do this on this day, or I don't want to

Andy Lee:

do that job or don't wanna do this'.

Andy Lee:

I guess what someone's just starting is probably not the best idea.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, totally.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And what do jobs pay, when you're starting out for anyone who's thinking

Jeffrey Duncan:

about going in your footsteps?

Andy Lee:

So I think that's the really difficult part.

Andy Lee:

It's about pricing yourself.

Andy Lee:

So, one of the people I work for, they give me $30 an hour, which,

Andy Lee:

I think I'd like more, but the nature of that relationship is

Andy Lee:

they can't afford to pay me more.

Andy Lee:

And that goes back to me saying do I need this job or not?

Andy Lee:

And it was one of those things where it was like, yes, I probably

Andy Lee:

do because it'll gimme exposure to this wider set of clients.

Andy Lee:

Other jobs I do, I might charge like $200 for a 22nd reel or a 32nd reel, but that

Andy Lee:

in itself might take a couple hours to do.

Andy Lee:

This national project I'm doing with this gym that's gonna be like over a grand.

Andy Lee:

And that'll be a couple hours work as well.

Andy Lee:

So it, I think, yeah, like with creative media, it's that

Andy Lee:

and all that sort of stuff.

Andy Lee:

The hardest part is about pricing yourself.

Andy Lee:

And I'm still discovering that.

Andy Lee:

I haven't been doing this for four years and I don't know in my head, 'Yeah.

Andy Lee:

My day rate is this.

Andy Lee:

Yeah'.

Andy Lee:

You're

Jeffrey Duncan:

six months in, right?

Andy Lee:

Yeah, pretty much.

Andy Lee:

And yeah, basically that first two months I didn't really do anything.

Andy Lee:

It was just hitting myself about my decision and what have I done.

Andy Lee:

So it was basically at the turn of the year when I really didn't,

Andy Lee:

all right now it's time to do it.

Andy Lee:

So yeah, I think the biggest thing is don't undervalue your own time

Andy Lee:

because like I've probably done that with a few things I've done.

Andy Lee:

And I guess the reason I did that was because I'm so new, I was just

Andy Lee:

like,' Nah I need to like just undercut in a sense, anyone else, so that

Andy Lee:

I can ensure I can get this work'.

Andy Lee:

But with that being said, if you undervalue your own time, sometimes

Andy Lee:

that also just means like people look at you and think, 'Oh, if they don't

Andy Lee:

think they're worth that much, why would I think they should be worth anything?

Andy Lee:

Why would I think the quality of their work would be good?'

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's a tough balance to strike.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's hard to know what the right call is there.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Have you been tempted to jump in full-time, put yourself on a bunch

Jeffrey Duncan:

of freelance contract sites and pick up enough gigs to , cause at the

Jeffrey Duncan:

rate you've been able to charge, you could, assuming you were doing

Jeffrey Duncan:

it full-time, that's a good income.

Andy Lee:

Just because I feel like my technical capabilities still aren't

Andy Lee:

at the point where I want 'em to be.

Andy Lee:

So I feel like my creative eye has always been really good and I've always

Andy Lee:

been able to see things and think, 'Oh, that would look really cool'.

Andy Lee:

And when I storyboard it's all in my head and I think this is gonna look

Andy Lee:

awesome, it's gonna look so sick.

Andy Lee:

But then when it comes to actually shooting it and actually executing

Andy Lee:

it, I'm not at the level yet.

Andy Lee:

I want to be where everything is the way I want it to be because, and that's like I

Andy Lee:

was saying, where things end up different or things don't go exactly to plan.

Andy Lee:

So technically there's still a gulf between what I see in my head and

Andy Lee:

what I'm able to do on the screen.

Andy Lee:

And so I wouldn't want to pursue it full-time until

Andy Lee:

I'm able to close that gap.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Yeah, fair enough.

Jeffrey Duncan:

So just in the skill building phase.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's been super interest, man, to wrap this part of the conversation up.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Do you have any advice, final advice for grads at PwC are on the

Jeffrey Duncan:

fence about their career decision?

Andy Lee:

Gee, maybe is gonna hate me.

Andy Lee:

But if you're on the fence, I think it's worth talking to your team leader

Andy Lee:

depending on who it is, and if it's not your team leader, someone that you

Andy Lee:

feel comfortable with, and just saying, ' Hey, I'm not sure about my role here.

Andy Lee:

What

Andy Lee:

do you think?' Because if that person has your best interest at heart,

Andy Lee:

they're gonna say either leave or they're gonna consider other factors in.

Andy Lee:

So, I think it's good to talk to someone else just to get a bit of

Andy Lee:

a clearer picture, but ultimately the decision has to be yours.

Andy Lee:

Don't stay at PwC or stay at Deloitte, or EY ,or KPMG because

Andy Lee:

someone else tells you to stay.

Andy Lee:

Stay because you wanna stay because you know that there's benefits to

Andy Lee:

staying and because you know that's gonna help you in the long run.

Andy Lee:

And on the other side, don't leave just because someone tells you to leave.

Andy Lee:

Don't leave a stable job just because you are a friend said, 'Oh, you don't

Andy Lee:

look like you're very happy, you should leave and do something else'.

Andy Lee:

Because if I'd listened to that, I would've left three months in.

Andy Lee:

But ultimate, and then if I'd left on someone else's accord, I

Andy Lee:

probably would've been bitter and would've been like, what the hell?

Andy Lee:

Why did I make that decision?

Andy Lee:

Like I should've just stayed.

Andy Lee:

And I would've always been thinking, what if?

Andy Lee:

Whereas leaving based on my own terms and coming to that decision by myself,

Andy Lee:

even though I had people in my ear saying, for so long you should leave.

Andy Lee:

It was ultimately me who went, 'Yeah, no, I don't wanna be here anymore.'

Andy Lee:

This is not for me.

Andy Lee:

I'm going to make that decision.

Andy Lee:

That's given me a lot more assurance, ironically assurance in that decision.

Andy Lee:

And a lot more confidence.

Andy Lee:

And even then, I still have doubts about it.

Andy Lee:

So I can't imagine what it would've been like if I just left because

Andy Lee:

someone else told me I should leave.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Really good advice.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And look, honestly, that advice is in line with what the

Jeffrey Duncan:

employer would want as well.

Jeffrey Duncan:

There's nothing worse from an employer perspective, a resignation

Jeffrey Duncan:

that comes outta the blue.

Jeffrey Duncan:

The right thing to do by an employer.

Jeffrey Duncan:

If you're questioning it, is discuss it with them, give them an

Jeffrey Duncan:

opportunity to fix stuff or, help you come to the right decision.

Jeffrey Duncan:

There's nothing to be gained by hiding your the fact that you are questioning it.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Like any good manager would really appreciate that.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Directness and forwardness.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's, yeah it's good advice all around from the employer and for the grad.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Mate, this has been great.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I think you've got a great vision that you're working towards,

Jeffrey Duncan:

and I love how you talk about storytelling, and obviously that's

Jeffrey Duncan:

what we're trying to do here, right?

Jeffrey Duncan:

Tell stories like yours, that students out there who dunno what their options

Jeffrey Duncan:

are or overwhelmed, can hear from other people like you and just make better

Jeffrey Duncan:

decisions with a bit more confidence.

Jeffrey Duncan:

And I reckon you could help us out there over a feeling.

Jeffrey Duncan:

Andy, thanks for your time.

Jeffrey Duncan:

That was great.

Jeffrey Duncan:

I'm sure there's gonna be a whole bunch of people out there that, really appreciate

Jeffrey Duncan:

the honesty you've just displayed there.

Jeffrey Duncan:

It's as I keep saying, very self-aware of you to think about the way you have and

Jeffrey Duncan:

really excited to see where you end up.

Andy Lee:

Thanks very much, Jeff.

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About the Podcast

The Graduate Career Launchpad | Australia
Brought to you by Prosple, your one-stop-shop for finding and securing your dream internship or fresh graduate job.
Want to know what strategies real graduates used to launch their career? Itching to know what top companies really look for in an applicant?

Well here's your chance!

From personal stories to insider tips, our interviews with graduates and campus recruiters will equip you with the knowledge and inspiration you need to take off and stand out from the crowd.

Join us as we soar to success in the big bad world of working life!

Brought to you by Prosple, your one-stop-shop for finding and securing your dream internship or fresh graduate job. Visit au.prosple.com for more information.

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Jeffrey Duncan